Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. I would go with the sig. I cant understand that. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. Do Pistols Benefit From Popular Aftermarket Modifications? They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. HKs MP7 has never been available in any commercial form. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. At the range, my first order of business was zeroing the Rattler and shooting five-shot groups with it at 50 yards using loads from Barnes, Hornady, Lehigh Defense and Sig. View Product. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. All Rights Reserved. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. The Sig Sauer Rattler. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. Forged rather than cast aluminum is now the standard, and machining is more exact thanks to computer numerically controlled (CNC) automation. We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. Extraordinary accuracy. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. Thats as short as ARs get. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. For more information, please see our Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. Visually, this made them less obvious. The two most well-known modern PDWs are the FN P90 and the HK MP7. The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. This is a 100-yard rifle. Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. No problems except for the gas blowback. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. It's a little longer but CZ Bren 2 MS pistol can be had in 5.56 or 7.62x39 with a couple added inches of barrel than the Sig Rattler. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. What is it? But you may have noticed complete uppers selling for as little as $400 during the last rounds of holiday sales and complete carbines selling for less than $700. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. It was too short. I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. Let's pick up there. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. American Shooting Centers is a public range, and placing the rifle in the racks during cease fires with the bolt locked open required care because any impact to the buttstock would release the bolt. Matte Black. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. What more can you ask for? One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. I was really happy . To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. MCX-SPEAR . The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Target right showed five A-zone shots. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). Its truly impressive. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. They are dead to me. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. ". Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Full Member. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. The Sig Virtus has these possible configurations: 300 Blackout: Barrel Lengths 6.75", 9", and 16" 5.56mm : Barrel Lengths 11.5" and 16" The Virtus is the more flexible platform, but there is nothing wrong with the Rattler. Sig Sauer. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. He called it a stutter. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. Subscriber Services. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Saw that email pop up today. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? In use, it seemed to all but disappear. Provided for advice, just in case you talk yourself into buying one. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. Awesome pistol by the way. Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. You have entered an incorrect email address! And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. JavaScript is disabled. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. You have entered an incorrect email address! Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. Apr 24, 2017 MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. Cookie Notice But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. Compare. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? Just Got this in my e-mail . Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. Runs great. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard.

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